SJ410 Engine Transplant

[QuirkyRides]

Hi All

I have a newly acquired 1983 SJ410 VW in really nice order but with a very tired engine. You can see it here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-SJ410 ... 7675.l2557

My intention is to replace the existing engine with either a G13B or G16B unit. As I understand it I will need a 1.3 gearbox as well. Will I also need an adaptor plate (I saw this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SALE-SUZUKI- ... 3192630608)?

I also saw this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-Grand ... 4606784597 which has a Jimny conversion kit. It seems expensive, but is it what I need?

I'd be more than happy to share photographs of progress. As you can imagine I'm keen to get this engine replacement absolutely right. I'm a bit worried that a G16B might be a bit much for an SJ410 as people I've spoken to have differing views, but if it it works I'd rather go for a 1.6 than a 1.3.

I'll either be keeping the existing engine and rebuilding it or selling it on as in need of rebuild. I guess they're pretty hard to come by?

Any advice from you guys would be much appreciated, especially in relation to which engine, gearbox ancillaries etc are necessary. Also, if any of you have decent spares I'd be interested in talking to you.

Many Thanks

Michael

[Jordi]

Off the top of my head.

You need a 1.3 gear box. The adaptor plate is only required if you fit the 1.6.

All the ancillaries for which ever engine you choose.

Ideally a skinny SJ starter motor.

Also need new engine mounts making.

As you are going for the B there is also the additional wiring required.

[QuirkyRides]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Would this do the job:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-Grand ... 4606784597? As you say, I'd still need a gearbox and adaptor plate. Presumably the gearbox needs to be an SJ413 box or are there other Suzuki equivalents? Cheers

[Jordi]

Sorry, i got mixed up. I thought thought the g16b was the 16v version but its a completely different engine to the one i thought.

I was thinking g16a, but 16v version.

I know nothing about the g16b. I’ll get Scottie to respond.

[ScottieJ]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. looks like a cracking little 410, got it for a good price as well if it's as tidy as it looks. I love the early metal dash 410s however you have unfortunately bought one of the hardest Sjs to upgrade in the power department.

There is a good, more modern option for you though. I'll get to that at the end.

So the 83 410 is a bit of a changeover year and this makes swaps using the 1.3 gearbox an issue. The transmission tunnel is smaller, the gear lever comes out in the wrong place and the gearbox mount crossmember is in the wrong place.
A 1.3 gearbox is a tight fit and you will need to cut a new hole for the gear lever and make your own gearbox mount.

Can you verify for me if the transfer box has a 4wd light on it look for 2 wires coming out of the box at the base of the tbox lever.

Also does it have skinny propshafts (25mm diameter ish) or fat propshafts (50mm ish)

If it's on skinny props then you will need to make a hybrid gearbox to tbox propshaft to mate a 1.3 gearbox to the tbox.

If you still want to go ahead with the 1.6 swap then you will have to fabricate new engine mounts, the conversion set in that waterbabies kit wont work with 410 mounts.

You can either get some 413 chassis mounts cut off a 1.3 chassis to weld onto your chassis then use a combo of the 1.3 rubbers and 1.6 engine mounts to build a set up that works or just fabricate a set of mounts from scratch.

Personally I wouldn't get that exact adapter plate either, the holes don't align perfectly and they send counter sunk bolts with the wrong thread for the 1.3 gearbox The only adapter plate I recommend is the Ben T/zukiparts one from New Zealand. It's perfectly aligned, comes with proper adapters so you don't need to drill the gearbox and has to correct thread countersunk bolts. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-Sierr ... SwZjJU4-kq

For the 1.6 16v swap you will also need to work out a way to retro fit a Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) into the speedo or you'll get an Engine warning light and a loss of power, it's basically just a reed switch that is fitted behind the speedo, it picks up the magnetic signal from the speedo drive. every time the magnet passes it closes the circuit sending a pulse signal to the ECU so that it knows if the car is accelerating, cruising or slowing down. It's pretty simple usually but I have never fitted one to an early 410 dash so can't tell you how easy/hard it is to fit one in there unfortunately.

There is quite a lot of wiring involved but there's plenty of info available on here and elsewhere online to help with that side of it, I'm always happy to point you in the right direction of where the wiring diagrams you will need are etc.

You'll also need to size up the fuel feed and return lines and fit a high pressure fuel pump, You can get the later SPI samurai fuel tanks with an in tank pump for around £250-300 or just run an external high pressure pump from your existing tank.

You'll need to build a new exhaust as well, 1.75" is a nice size for the 1.6.

Cooling wise, You have the option of a 1.3 rad, using a viscous coupling or electric fan, you must run a fan shroud with this set up, it's essential!
Or you can fit the early 1.6 8v Vitara radiator, again with either a viscous or electric fan, again a shroud is recommended, if The SJ will see a lot of off-roading and mud then the 1.6 rad is a better option in my opinion although more work to fit. You just have the extra cooling capacity when the rad gets partially blocked with mud

Power wise the the drivetrain can cope with a 1.6 fine, just don't cheap out on a clutch, I've had good experiences with Excedy and LUK clutches.

Pretty sure I haven't missed anything.

Right and now for the other engine swap option, it's 20 odd bhp less than the 1.6 16v but 20bhp more than the f10a, a lot easier to fit and they are super economical.

The 1.1 F10d out of a 2003-05 suzuki alto (says 16 valve and maruti on the rocker cover)

It's an F series block so it will bolt straight to your existing gearbox, however if your spigot bearing for the gearbox is in your crank you will need to cut the gearbox input shaft down and mount a spigot bearing into your flywheel instead. You will need to do lots of wiring and also fit a VSS into your speedo and fit a high pressure fuel pump etc but overall there's loads less work involved.

This isn't a swap i have done yet but I know 2 people that have and I am planning on using one in my LJ80 (they have an F8a as standard)

Personally I also love the stock F10a in the sj410s, they love to rev and just keep going even when you think they don't have much life left in them so I wouldn't rule out just rebuilding yours.

Hope that helps a bit and doesn't add too much confusion to the mix.

[QuirkyRides]

Thanks, that's a hell of a lot of useful information! Much appreciated.

This 410 doesn't have the metal dash though, not sure what difference that makes in terms of other factors in an engine upgrade. We've been over it with a fine toothed comb; it's been really well looked after and the bodywork is very solid.

It seems much more complicated than I thought to put in a G16 and, given my relatively limited mechanical knowledge and lack of equipment I'm drawn towards the idea of either the Alto engine that you suggest, or maybe a rebuild of the existing lump. It's only got 78k on it and even though it's slow as a snail it's not the sort of thing I'll be routinely using on motorways.

I bought it because I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere and I wanted something a bit different and unusual (only 7 SJ410 VWs left on the road apparently) to replace my Lada Niva, which we imported from Russia........don't laugh too much, it never let me down

Once again, thanks a million for all the advice. I'll keep everyone posted on progress and will upload some pics as things progress

[ScottieJ]

No worries.

The dash that yours has, although not 100% metal is what Sj owners call the metal dash, it actually has some metal rather than the all plastic later ones.

I think yours would be a series 2 SJ410, looks to have disc brakes up front, the series 1 had drums all round. The early ones like yours are Very rare now so I would be tempted to keep it as standard as possible as the value is only going to go up. They are super capable offroad with just some 215/75 MT tyres on them.

With a healthy F10a that's tuned correctly they will happily cruise at 70mph, yeah it's screaming but the F10a is built to rev. I have had a few 410s and love them in standard form.

[QuirkyRides]

Thanks for that Scottie

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined towards a rebuild of the existing F10a. From what I can see there are only 7 SJ410 VWs on the road, with a larger number on SORN.

The advice you've given is really helpful.

Thanks again!

[ROBBIE]

Stick with the f10, keep it original

[DavidB]

Hi, I also have an early SJ - I attempted to put a 16v G13B in (I sold the original F10A), but with the mounts being different on the chassis and the tunnel being the wrong shape and everything, I abandoned it and then bought another F10A and put that back in. I bought the whole lot as a package, but the seller refused to look for/give up exhaust manifold which decided it for me. Also have two five speed boxes, everything gathering dust in the corner of the garage.

I like the 1.0, but I do wish it was quicker, and I'm always going to change up a gear and then realising I'm in fourth at 30mph. :(











Yours looks really nice, the rear boot floors are perfect!